{"id":5098,"date":"2017-02-22T16:43:42","date_gmt":"2017-02-22T21:43:42","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/?p=5098"},"modified":"2017-02-22T16:43:42","modified_gmt":"2017-02-22T21:43:42","slug":"strawmika","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/?p=5098","title":{"rendered":"StrawMika"},"content":{"rendered":"<p style=\"text-align: center\"><a href=\"http:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/?attachment_id=5100\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-5100\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-medium wp-image-5100\" src=\"http:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/wp-content\/plugins\/2017\/02\/o-BOURBON2-facebook-1-300x150.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"150\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/wp-content\/plugins\/2017\/02\/o-BOURBON2-facebook-1-300x150.jpg 300w, https:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/wp-content\/plugins\/2017\/02\/o-BOURBON2-facebook-1-768x384.jpg 768w, https:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/wp-content\/plugins\/2017\/02\/o-BOURBON2-facebook-1-1024x512.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/wp-content\/plugins\/2017\/02\/o-BOURBON2-facebook-1.jpg 2000w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>A longstanding way to think of straw man argumentation is to misinterpret or misrepresent what people said or what their arguments were.\u00c2\u00a0 That&#8217;s a version of the <strong>representational<\/strong> straw man. John and I have also identified the<strong> selectional<\/strong> version of the straw man, or the weak man.\u00c2\u00a0 That&#8217;s a case of finding a member of the opposition that has a badly stated version of the view or a poorly constructed version of their argument and go after that.<\/p>\n<p>There&#8217;s nothing wrong with criticizing a bad argument, but what gets communicated with it is that you, in investing time and energy in replying to that bad argument, you&#8217;re not spending time on the better ones.\u00c2\u00a0 That would be bad use of your time, so if you&#8217;re doing the work of criticizing the bad arguments, they must be as good as they get.<\/p>\n<p>Another weak man instance is that you take imperfectly phrased versions of an opponent&#8217;s posiiton and interpret them mercilously.\u00c2\u00a0 When we&#8217;re speaking off the cuff, extemporaneously, we may not say everything just right.\u00c2\u00a0 And so we, except when in full-attack mode, give each other some slack.\u00c2\u00a0 That&#8217;s a difference between spoken and written communication.\u00c2\u00a0 And to interpret your interlocutor in the worst lights when they are speaking informally (and so, imprecisely) is a kind of selectional straw man.<\/p>\n<p>Well, so here&#8217;s what happened. Mika <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=NoXGV4Vw-VA\">Brzezinski<\/a> said on\u00c2\u00a0<em>Morning Joe\u00c2\u00a0<\/em>today that the media&#8217;s &#8220;job&#8221; is to &#8220;actually control exactly what people think.&#8221;\u00c2\u00a0 Here&#8217;s the clip:<\/p>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Our Job\" width=\"474\" height=\"267\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/NoXGV4Vw-VA?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>Now, the context is that Brzezinski&#8217;s line is a contrastive &#8212; that Trump is trying to control what people think by pushing out the media.\u00c2\u00a0 By &#8220;speaking directly to the people,&#8221; as we&#8217;d seen in a previous post.<\/p>\n<p>So conservative media has gone straight up bonkers about the line.\u00c2\u00a0 <a href=\"http:\/\/www.zerohedge.com\/news\/2017-02-22\/msnbc-anchor-admits-our-job-control-exactly-what-people-think\">Tyler Durden<\/a> says she&#8217;s &#8220;let slip the awesome unspoken truth&#8221; about what the media thinks they should be doing.\u00c2\u00a0 The folks at<a href=\"http:\/\/www.breitbart.com\/video\/2017\/02\/22\/brzezinski-controlling-what-people-think-is-our-job\/\"> Breitbart<\/a> have made it a front page story, with the implication that the imperfect wording is really a Freudian slip.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.realclearpolitics.com\/video\/2017\/02\/22\/msnbcs_brzezinski_trump_thinks_he_can_control_exactly_what_people_think_but_thats_our_job.html\">Real Clear Politics<\/a> has a follow-up to it, and Brzezinski has gone into Twitter cleanup mode<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-width=\"474\" data-dnt=\"true\">\n<p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">Today I said it&#39;s the media&#39;s job to keep President Trump from making up his own facts, NOT that it&#39;s our job to control what people think.<\/p>\n<p>&mdash; Mika Brzezinski (@morningmika) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/morningmika\/status\/834463604531404800?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">February 22, 2017<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s pretty clear that when folks have what Walton calls &#8220;dark side interpretation&#8221; already cued, they&#8217;ll take something like this as evidence of letting a mask slip instead of a poorly phrased bit of intellectual pushback.\u00c2\u00a0 So this makes it an interesting case of a mix between selectional and representational straw man &#8212; it&#8217;s selectional, since they go after what she&#8217;s said, but it&#8217;s representational, since we need an interpretive attitude to take this as seriously a representation of her sincere position.<\/p>\n<p>So, in a way, a lesson about straw manning.\u00c2\u00a0 If your picture of the opposition, after interpretation, fits the worst kind of picture you may have of them, you may be a straw-manner.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>A longstanding way to think of straw man argumentation is to misinterpret or misrepresent what people said or what their arguments were.\u00c2\u00a0 That&#8217;s a version of the representational straw man. John and I have also identified the selectional version of the straw man, or the weak man.\u00c2\u00a0 That&#8217;s a case of finding a member of &hellip; <a href=\"https:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/?p=5098\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading <span class=\"screen-reader-text\">StrawMika<\/span> <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[12,571],"tags":[1296,1964,412,759],"class_list":["post-5098","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-straw-man","category-weak-man-straw-man-fallacies-of-relevance-fallacies-argument-problems","tag-mika-brzezinski","tag-straw-man","tag-weak-man","tag-weak-manning"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5098","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=5098"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5098\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5101,"href":"https:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5098\/revisions\/5101"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=5098"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=5098"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thenonsequitur.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=5098"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}